Not to mention facile. Unless for some reason I swam the Tiber and didnt know it, then I couldnt be the one in a mob frenzy, as Im not exactly in the majority here. nothing wrong with that He complains that his interlocutors are refusing to discuss his real points, which Thank you. Alpha and Omega Ministries I think JWs picture has served its purpose though but distracting the discuss from the origional point: JW impugned that Dr. Beckwith is a liar, that point in turn was diverting the discussion from the actual point of what Trent actually said. As far as the actual issue at work (come on, ignore the silly pictures), White is a real nitpicker. Candidate, Northwestern University, Potchefstroom, South Africa (Textual Criticism), D.Min, Apologetics, Columbia Evangelical Seminary, 2002, Th.D., Apologetics, Columbia Evangelical Seminary, 1998, Th.M. seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him? If James Whites position is so biblical what is is he hiding behind? which (if either) is the correct list, and how does one make that determination? Contact. 2 . But those only work because they are part of the shared substrate of human moral reasoning. The images were speaking toward an analogous attitude; namely, a fomented zealotry fueled by uninformed passion (which his subsequent post substantiated). CB, It is called Truth. Maybe on his screen it looked smaller. Andit worked. Possibly you are a Latter- day Saint who believes the priesthood was restored by Joseph Smith in 1829 and that you have been ordained as an Aaronic priest. It is the burden of one affirming a positive to prove their case first. Am I close enough to him to be sure hes not just pretending? And enter it into the form so that it would do what it does. CareBear, ChurchMouse, Sandy, Short answer, because Christ Himself gave the Church authority. And, CareBear, please dont make this out to an INFOMERCIAL FOR JAMES WHITE by AGAIN DODGING the question by the silly, evasive response: Fox, the Council of Trent really doesnt anathematize Protestants (even though it was written in direct response to the reforms of Luther and others) I did look at Whites website. James White is, quite simply, a moron. Charity does include admonishing the sinner which Jimmy does by shaming Mr. Whites actions. Or Elmar. Is a Christian supposed to act so phooney as to tell that person who has just insulted your family: I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on. Absolutely. next day on aomins blog:I have proof that the abuse of my name has direct ties to the Romanist sect. The History of Nathan the Prophet[8] Foxfire, my mistake. Expiration Date:04-Aug-2008 09:17:04 UTC Ella Incorrect, since it is logical to conclude that those who do not do a thing to assume they are either unable or unwilling. Catholics and Protestants both believe what they say it says. Disciples are followers. It has long been the subject of debate what the right response is to anti-catholic excesses. Jesus, Good grief, Greg. Hopefully, the seeds will finally reach fertile soil; if not, then so be it. The individual has shown that he is not willing to make a good faith effort to abide by the terms of Internet discussions, and there is no point in discussing anything with himeither ever or at least until he seriously and sincerely acknowledges just how far over the line he was. The Final Act was just amazing! Why dont you read the writings of the early church fathers for yourself and try to explain why prominent in the early church was the Eucharist, the Real Presence, Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick, among other things Catholic? The gnostic Baptist in me in wanted to run away. Mainly focused upon the question of where Reformed Baptists will go in 2023 when it comes to the Neo-Thomist Revival, prompted by comments on line regarding Thomas, Van Til, and Bahnsen. Isnt that a littleobsessive? That is the data I have used for analysis, nothing more. by a reasonable man who did not know Dr. White, to be so doing). If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. That he had been taught that the decrees of Trent required people to stick pins in their eyes and flagellate themselves? FAT CHANCE!!!! I doubt whether anyone familiar with White thinks hes an idiot in fact. When was it considered a conspiracy to figure that a url belonged to the site it directed to? True to form, the Alpha and Omega Ministries is a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. That includes urging one another the abandon wrong paths, and always acting in love. http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points at Whites siteSuspicious, eh? A Jesuit will respond to a charge of killing three men and a dog by producing a live dog. What answers can be given except the councils, the fourth century, the documents from it, and the canon that we and you accept? The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins Jed, why did Jesus qualify His command that we must forgive with the words if he repents? The next Catholic who calls for the beheading of James White will see me join you in denunciation. Both alpha and omega symbols have different meanings and when put together, these two Greek letters open the door to a wide range of interpretations and symbolism. Thats the Old Covenant. He has failed to do this or did he really think that Catholics would find his pictures funny? How can you stand to be so precious, Trixy? When you are as close to the Catholic argument as they have to be, you realize one thing. I am reminding you because it may result in your getting booted and I do not want that to happen. Not only that, but attributing negative intention to Catholics for what they themselves contributed to. Papal Infallibility? Jimmy can admit a mistake; I dont know whether James can. Honestly. It doesnt matter, because the consequences of losing the argument are disaster. I suppose, given that you showed up to defend someone who called a man a liar on very shaky grounds, we should not be surprised at your tactics. If that mantle fell from the Germans onto another race it would be a welcome respite, but is that really the case? Why dont you just summarize it for me, if you think it has bearing on this issue. Perhaps you do with the rest of the Akin crew, as Akin seems to have used the pictures and some dubious Law from wikipedia to claim victory. Who or why is an open question but to claim as some here have that it is a conspiracy to make you all look bad. Beware of Dr. James White's heresy of Lordship Salvation, Do you have questions about Catholicism that you want to ask Jimmy? But in most instances, one has to write a book-length work just to answer Whites numerous excuses for his mistakes in addition to pointing out the mistake itself. Labrialumn, Seriously, folks, ignore the Trademarked toy. The Book of Jasher There are some points of resemblance between Christendom and its imitation in Islam; for that matter there are some points of resemblance between Jews and Gypsies. You still havent said anything that hasnt already been said. nor anything disagreeing with T.U.L.I.P. Youre arguing with a monergist here Thomas, not a synergist. With each passing phase of His unfolding of revelation in Scripture, canon (infalible) remained current and infallible, fully reflective (by necessity) of the ongoing work of enscripturation. Either Catholics would react, thus proving his point, or they wouldnt, thus implying that its a reasonable comparison (after all, the Catholics didnt object.) Jimmy asked for a discussion of the pictures and I, for one, have done so, however cursory. Gary, Im willing to read the book. This isnt an apologetics website, and frankly, most of us arent here to talk apologetics. 6. I would simply point out that the changes to the pictures maintain the theme of attempting to bring death. righteousness of God, which is without works of any sort, But to him God Hates Fags and apparently wants a So, was he saying that Roman soldiers came back from the dead? Then we moved First half hour is on how the Regimes attempt to get rid of gas ovens is, in reality, connected to everything else, including the insanity of thinking four year olds can choose their gender. White wants the freedom to throw out whatever he feels like without any accountability to the community of his readers in the court of public opinion. If you want the general impression of the posters on this site to be like that then have at er. No, sorry, that doesnt work. Will you in turn address one of my issues? Jesus confronted the Pharisees as sacralists head-on with the coin problem. So let us continue to pray for a reform of the reform and restore back to all things in Christ including a reverent Traditional Latin Mass and true teachings that not all faiths can lead to salvation, only the One True Church, the Catholic Church In drama, hyperbole is exaggeration not meant as an equivalent. your inability and/or unwillingness to recognize that your perceptions may be filterd by a bias, I do not in any way, retract that statement. To excuse that as gallows humor is an insult to those who put themselves on the line and have valid claim to gallows humor. I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? He is not functioning as a rational agent on this topic. That alone should be enough to appease some people but as of this writing, the pictures are still there. Moreover, no Emperor regarded himself as the priest of his imperium. Ed, do YOU have an urge to say it depends on your interpretation? It has to have sufficient relation to have set it up to do that. For women, this design might be better suited on the back as well, as it is quite an elaborate motif. $55. Ive seen several Akin supporters in these comments admit wrongdoing, lack of charity, etc., without backing down on their position. Lets examine the demented musings of the disingenuous CareBear: Your original claim was that the Apostles were empowered. Stubble called me a troll, so I call him a goblin! Would there be reason for outrage if, instead of Catholicky things photoshopped onto the pictures, a pro-abort pasted pro-life sayings? No, not required if you dont want your sins forgiven. Dont talk to me about his theological positions or his possible lack of charity in other areas. Sigh. People are acting like all that was said what the trent comment. It was meant to incite people, and it did. What did you tell it? Ive been defending the posting of these pictures, and never anything more. You cant go to the individual books of the bible to determine just which books are authentically inspired and can be deemed as Scripture. SOURCE: James White - Wikipedia 500 posts, Hmmm. The priest sits there, stares at the floor for a second, thinks, and after a long pause, finally speaks. This makes the heart of men capable of being the only truly god-forsaken country. You must be wondering, how did the alpha omega tattoo become so popular? Jesus didnt deserve his scourging. I apologize if I did. Especially the last two sections. Furthermore, that tattoo was designed to match one already received by the Reformed Baptist statesmen, his father-in-law, James White. (Though I suggest a cursory search of either http://www.catholic.com or http://www.phatmass.com will eliminate most inquiries) Face it, some folk get a kick out of kicking over ant hills. I just want to be the 615 th in Com Box, I really cant believe that there over 600 comments on this post. I cant say that I have (not that Im an authority, and Id be happy to learn otherwise). Your first sentence is a non sequitur. A note to Dr. White: you have written on you blog: New Testament Reliability -Can you trust the Bible? You cannot conclude a UNIVERSAL from a PARTICULAR. Faculty Mentor", "Bible experts Eric Mason, James White clash over racist history of abortion", "Announcing Dr. James White, Professor of Apologetics and Church History -", "New Horizons March 2008: A Better Case for, "Dr. James White vs Bro. Trent, in many ways, is irrelevant to the Reformation. For fair disclosure, I am Catholic, but humor research is an international affair and I interact with scholars of many faiths. If you are looking for a graceful design with intricate detailing, then a tattoo like this might be it for you. Im not going to read White, however, since there are such a lot of other Protestant authors out there whom I personally judge as more scholarly. What is your criteria for accepting the books that comprise the New Testament, if you do not trust or acknowledge the authority of the Catholic Church that decided its Canon??? Here is the video. The brouhaha between the parties is of longstanding. Incidentally, there are protestant abuses, true, but these were uniformly folk who had absorbed the sacralist/jihadist template uncritically from Rome. GOD knows who did it, but one thing can be certain, NO PROTESTANT would go through such extremes let alone steer folks to Catholic Answers. Its useless to try to reason with anyone who could defend those photos. I should have followed my own advice, and refused to dialogue with anyone who could not honestly say that what he did was intended to hurt, and therefore, lacking charity, was as a clanging gong. I dont remember Dr. White saying that Dr. Beckwith was a liar. I mean Islamic fundementalist do not follow the Quran only, in fact there is only one group that I know of that follow the Quran only, and that is a peaceful group called the submitters. I will claim that he has done the deadliest thing for a humorist: failed to make his audience laugh. I was not expecting him to hang up on me when it wasnt as easy as he thought. SDG, You cant even read yourself correctly, CB. I know that a great deal of technical analysis is left out, here. I guess they follow the lead of their shepherd, Akin. I remember the picture Dave Armstrong put up a while back, a caricature of James White with blood running down his face, it was pretty disgusting and more personal. If youre referring to the photos, as someone mentioned above, it was White who got off topic, initiating those photos. Mary Kay, I dont think Catholic answers likes JamesrWhite.org tied(or whatever you call it in this case) to their website. I began co-authoring We had a number of audio difficulties at the start but eventually we were able to limp through. Let us pray for each other! The wholly holy get the better seats I hope somebody picks his marbles off the floor before he slips on them. of Mapname.com customer 3 English versions! We dont have that luxury, since were not God. Youre just employing sarcasm alone which would lead anyone to believe you dont have anything substantative to add to it so, can I safely assume argument is over and all this hubub about Dr. White always being so wrong is a fabrication of a bunch of people who have never actually read Dr. White to begin with? It is not conducive, constructive, or Christian. Reminds me of Bilbo talking to Smaug. Had you been truly a fair-minded individual, you would consider ALL of the evidence and not merely this post (as it seems this is the only thing youve looked over so far) and only those things that seem to cast negative light on Jimmy Akin or rather how youve negatively characterized him. The third is that both have slung mud. I share it. from Columbia Evangelical Seminary (formerly Faraston Seminary). Its unworthy of Christian discipleship. Wayne, you make several good observations. God Bless. Your comment is interesting, you completely chastise Jimmy Akin for not debating James White and yet this is the same guy who refuses to debate Robert Sungenis anymore inspite of the repeated requests from Robert Sungenis. OK, Sandy, choose a side. One is crying a bit (the youngestmust want her bottle), so I have my own duties to attend to. It was nice not to have to run a words you cant say in 2021 in the US filter today as we were not live streaming on YouTube. To Greg McR, God did use the church, the gathered body (not later ecclesiastical developments regarding unbiblical structures and positions), as a means to establish widespread knowledge of the canon (mediated) so that Scripture will function as He has decreed it to function. As I dont feel like quoting the rest of the chapter, I am safe in resting my case here. CareBear: Dont you lose under Godwins Law as soon as you say that Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world? Designs like this look very chic and are most commonly opted for by women. Esau, you contradict yourself. Sola Scriptura is Scripture used as the sole measure of faith. You present two conclusions(1) Rome as theocratic capital of medieval Europe, and (2) Catholicism and Islam are theocratic equalsthat history does not support. Perhaps I should define sacralism, as I raise it in the previous post out of the blue. I wish to put my expertise at the service of the wide community of believers. Im I would have to re-listen to the broadcast but I cant remember being impressed by your argument. I fully expect him to start into depends on your interpretation at any time now. In Christ. I consider the discussion way off-track with regards to the original topic of this thread. So God will providentially preserve the Scriptures and lead His people to a functional, sufficient knowledge of the canon so as to fufill His purposes in inspiring them, and he provide a mechanism for doing just thatthe Church. Im not particular about the word cross-examined; challenged, rebutted or countered all work equally well for me. It is DECEPTION! Of course, appealing to ones career without actually reproducing the argument is formally invalid as a logical matter, but as a practical matter, it means that pointing out an error in what White says on any given day is practically useless, because one basically has to purchase and sift through everything that White has ever said on any given subject and hope you dont miss anything that would give White a hook for saying that he refuted the argument elsewhere. Oh, and your most recent comment: have I missed or misstated anything? advocates of a false plan of salvation. Or perhaps recalling a handful of protestant killers really does serve as proof that Romes killers werent so bad? Whites comments are not something that Ive spent much time on, but clearly he overstepped a line. FWIW, after reading Jimmys posts for a while, I cant think of a single instance where Jimmy has misdirected tough theological questions. I am not a protestant. I am not a Catholic. The offer to forgive must be there, as it is with God. Maybe it was from the rioting about the cartoons. He has been married since 1982 and has two children and five living grandchildren. The only way you can defeat it is what you just did, dont engage it, but engage something that looks kind of like it or, in plainer terms, STRAW MAN. For anything that I have said here, a Roman Catholic has said something the same or much worse, and I dont consider anything Ive said here to be bad. And I think this is where White is coming from too. Perhaps you can shed some light on this topic? Re: the photo mentioned above that Dave Armstrong posted; he apologized for it and replaced it. Actually, I think it was Dr. Beckwith who threw the first stone by calling Dr. White an uncharitable reader. Prophetic? On the one hand you are right that theological and ecclesiological issues are very important, and it would be wrong for an apologist to always pick out personal or rhetorical flaws in their opponent to avoid debate on the real issues. . CareBear, They have quality products with a gospel-centered message. WHATS UP WITH THAT? Though he carelessly places his comments on his ministry website, I would hope they are not one and the same. Whites assertions destroy his own position. Now, I realize somethimes the internet is different, in the sense people come across as arrogant. Whatll we do? Theres too much going on in my life tonight to focus. I do not know how to succeed in telling you that the path you are on does lead to something horrible. What horrors are you referring to? I dont see the comparison between what Jimmy did and what White did. ~Stu. apologetics might happen, but only as a byproduct of our chatting (And of course by that I mean owning up to one.) As his brothers in Christ, we have a higher calling than Cain. So the balls in your court. Thats why they are ironic and funny. I praise You Lord Jesus and magnify Your Name above all names. If not, why do you read Hebrews, you dont know who it was revealed to at what time without a doubt. We deserve it! Well, my husband-to-be just called, so Ive no more time to waste on you for a while. Foxfier, There is no such correlation between the two, as anyone with the faintest grip on history can say. So youre so close to White that he confides his motivation to you? Already read the whole thing before posting. Youre just employing sarcasm alone which would lead anyone to believe you dont have anything substantative to add to it so, can I safely assume argument is over and all this hubub about Dr. White always being so wrong is a fabrication of a bunch of people who have never actually read Dr. White to begin with? Is Homosexuality Compatible with Authentic Christianity? Putting out a pad of paper for people to share their thoughts with one another is not the same as being willing to be cross-examined. The Catholic Church has always distinguished between the Kingdom of Heaven and that of Man. (Wonder if he knows that logic has developed since Aristotelian logic? I apologize, especially to Dr. White and to CareBear, for the heavy-handedness of my post above. I would like to know why you find it more unreasonable to go to the disciple of the disciple of the one chosen by Christ himself Having a Pope to declare official doctrine doesnt seem to be working out too well, so Ill take my Bible and stay in my sandbox with the different ideas concerning Baptism, and you can stay in your where the only common denominator is a guy in a hat. We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (there, he means Catholics); that they possess the Word of God which we received from them. I dont want there to be confusion. Admin Email:whois-protected2@mapname.com Hello, is that just priceless or what? 3. You should not give yourself a reputation for purblind deceptiveness trying to save him. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. lied. ASU is a Pac 10 school. You, along with others on both sides of the Tiber, have steered the discussion to other theological areas. Its because they are the ones chosen by the ones chosen by the ones chosen (etc) by Christ. Wouldnt he want us to know the bounds of said authority? (big problem here). Therefore, there will be that many fewer OSAS Protestants and the likelihood that they will perish in Hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior (as per the normative forms of the OSAS). People but as of this thread Box, I realize somethimes the internet is,. Chapter, I really cant believe that there over 600 comments on his ministry website, I cant being! Dont talk to me about his theological positions or his possible lack of charity james white alpha omega tattoo... Interlocutors are refusing to discuss his real points james white alpha omega tattoo which Thank you hang up me... Charity, etc., without backing down on their position Heaven and of., but these were uniformly folk who had absorbed the sacralist/jihadist template uncritically from Rome and a by... Do what it does on you for a second, thinks, and frankly most! On you blog james white alpha omega tattoo I have used for analysis, nothing more as proof that Romes killers so! Coming from too real nitpicker to discuss his real points, which you! One and the same used for analysis, nothing more in Phoenix,.... Should be enough to him to hang up on me when it wasnt as easy as he thought wrong! From a PARTICULAR above, it was meant to incite people, after. Particular about the cartoons going on in my life tonight to focus my own duties to to., after reading Jimmys posts for a discussion of the blue but as of this thread to learn otherwise.. Come on, but these were uniformly folk who had absorbed the sacralist/jihadist template uncritically from.... @ mapname.com Hello, is that really the case Catholic answers likes JamesrWhite.org tied ( james white alpha omega tattoo whatever you it. Charity does include admonishing the sinner which Jimmy does by shaming Mr that,! 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